Pagans & Infrastructure: Serving Your Cause Effectively
Speaking: Alley Valkyrie (Homeless advocate in WA), Ankhira Swordplow (Bay Area Fundraising Professional), Carolina Amor Boggs (Bi-Lingual Priestess), and Sam Webster (Nonprofit Executive Director)
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12:05:07 From Mark Green : Audre Lorde has apparently never heard of a Sawzall.
12:14:44 From Wytchfawn : He also belonged to Hitler Youth.
12:15:03 From Yeshe Rabbit : Really? I did not know that.
12:15:12 From Yeshe Rabbit : Where can we find meets on that, Fawn?
12:15:16 From Yeshe Rabbit : *deets
12:15:59 From Wytchfawn : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/8720214/IKEA-founder-was-Nazi-recruiter.html
12:16:26 From Yeshe Rabbit : wow! thanks for sharing.
12:19:11 From River Devora : SItting with a question about how money = power = control, and who is in control? Who sets the agenda? Who is enfranchised by this and who is disenfranchised?
12:19:44 From Mark Green : The 60s were a children’s crusade. They were naive. That is not the model we want to pursue.
12:20:13 From Yeshe Rabbit : Over here, I am thinking about how much easier life would be for many if there was a basic living fee given to everyone, regardless, and folks could then choose to earn more if they wanted. But it would mean people had more room to be creative and self-determined.
12:20:55 From Wytchfawn : Money talks in this world, unfortunately.
12:21:11 From Alley Valkyrie : a guaranteed minimum income would not only be more much more effective than our current welfare system, it would be also much cheaper in the end
12:21:18 From Yeshe Rabbit : TRUTH
12:21:27 From Yeshe Rabbit : With medical care for all.
12:21:33 From Vicki : Prices would just go up so that no one could afford what they need.
12:21:35 From Yeshe Rabbit : and Elder care and child care for all.
12:21:47 From River Devora : In this specific example, the corporation that Sam is talking about. Who decides what projects get funded and which ones don’t ? Whihc groups or individuals are priviledged by this structure and which aren’t?
12:22:12 From Rhyd : Thank you for voicing those questions, River. THANK YOU.
12:22:28 From Yeshe Rabbit : Right now, the Pantheon Foundations, which is where we are employing this model, seeks the people who are on the streets, doing the actual work, as our advisors on our projects.
12:22:52 From Alley Valkyrie : prices would not necessarily “just go up”. and definitely not the point where everything would be unaffordable
12:23:24 From Alley Valkyrie : if the current system mandates that someone has to suffer and go without in order for others to get what their basic needs met, we need a new system
12:23:25 From an Elder Apprentice : He is saying that a corporation is a flexible legal entity which can be used creatively.
12:23:39 From Wytchfawn : There is a restaurant near me which on Mondays allows people to name their own price. Those are the days which that business makes the MOST money.
12:23:57 From Jaina Bee : awesome
12:24:04 From Vicki : Agreed that “if the current system mandates that someone has to suffer and go without in order for others to get what their basic needs met, we need a new system”
12:24:13 From Robin Grimm, Minneapolis : I didn’t get that the point was to dismantle the current overstrucure. It seems to me it is to build an alternative
12:24:30 From Wytchfawn : I took away “work within the system”
12:25:40 From an Elder Apprentice : Use the tools that exist in ways that are unconventional
12:26:25 From P. Sufenas Virius Lupus : But are the tools themselves tainted or corrupted?
12:26:45 From Wytchfawn : Does it matter? What matter is HOW we use them… I would think.
12:27:31 From Jaina Bee : Who wants to use a broken tool?
12:27:47 From River Devora : Is this really “unconventional”? There is a group of folks who are gathering money and distributing it to groups and projects of their choosing. I am not necessarily implying that this is a bad thing, at all! However, there are still all the same possible avenues for corruption as in any other structure of this type. Even in a good intended way, the folks who distribute and fund projects are the folks who (intentionally or not) also get to set the agenda of what is out there, what gets institutionalized support, etc. I’m not agains this necessarily, but we need to be realistic about what is happening here.
12:27:54 From P. Sufenas Virius Lupus : Exactly, Jaina…
12:28:34 From Yeshe Rabbit : Have you read of morphic resonance theory? Rupert Sheldrake suggests that we create new centers on the margins as a way of drawing energy away from the existing centers, and destabilizing existing paradigms while building new ones.
12:29:13 From Jaina Bee : putting it on the reading list
12:29:14 From Yeshe Rabbit : I am working on the Foundation as a legal way to actually create a gift economy that works.
12:29:16 From Lasara Allen : I don’t take it as “working within the system” as much as using the system that exists. Maybe that’s splitting hairs, but really I think there is a difference.
12:29:24 From Yeshe Rabbit : Exactly, Lasara
12:29:39 From Lasara Allen : Religious orgs are corporations.
12:29:42 From Alley Valkyrie : exactly. sometimes broken tools are all you have
12:29:46 From Yeshe Rabbit : Right
12:29:52 From Lasara Allen : It’s what protects us in the eyes of the law.
12:29:53 From an Elder Apprentice : New tools can be created to. An example is ‘copy left’ or ‘Creative Commons contracts’ in the open software movement. If we don’t like the tools invent new ones.
12:30:01 From Yeshe Rabbit : (looks around, wishes someone would create something better, starts where I am with what I have)
12:30:09 From Alley Valkyrie : and its better to work with whats there than nothing at all. you can use those dysfunctional structures to create new ones
12:30:11 From Jaina Bee : I’m all for mutation
12:30:12 From P. Sufenas Virius Lupus : It’s a nice theory, Rabbit, but is it actually working? Does it fit reality as we know it, or just make us feel good as a constellation of meaning we impose over the facts?
12:30:17 From Robin Grimm, Minneapolis : distracting
12:30:26 From Lasara Allen : it’s not an either/or – it’s a both/and.
12:31:06 From Yeshe Rabbit : It works in my business at TSW, where people write their own job descriptions, set their own schedules (mostly) and are encouraged to spend a portion of each shift doing something creative that nurtures their should, Lupus.
12:31:28 From Yeshe Rabbit : Thanks, Robin. Let’s be mindful of chat for a bit
12:31:37 From Lasara Allen : I love what Carolina is saying.
12:31:47 From Lasara Allen : It ties in directly.
12:31:51 From Lasara Allen : (to the other)
12:34:00 From Lasara Allen : beautifully said. thank you.
12:34:15 From Vyviane : Thank you Sister Carolina! Very inspiring.
12:34:19 From Mark Green : (sorry to miss it–my computer crashed)
12:34:43 From Rev Keith V, Wiccan Church of Minnesota : Mark… You can watch the video later. 🙂
12:34:56 From Rev Keith V, Wiccan Church of Minnesota : It was worth it!
12:35:12 From an Elder Apprentice : Catalina’s talk was wonderful
12:36:10 From Wytchfawn : Accessability is important in our larger global community, for sure. This is awesome work.
12:37:07 From Mark Green : Thank you!
12:37:17 From Carolina Amor : Thank you!
12:39:22 From Wytchfawn : I have seen the biggest problem in pagan groups is getting past just THAT initial part: defining we who are, what we want, etc.
12:39:32 From Yeshe Rabbit : Agreed
12:39:42 From Robin Grimm, Minneapolis : root of word “corporation” means “body”
12:39:51 From an Elder Apprentice : There is an emerging type of ‘for profit’ corp that can make a profit but that is not its primary goal, an important legal distinction.
12:40:09 From Carolina Amor : yes, because the corporation is an entity on its own, it has body of its own
12:40:29 From Yeshe Rabbit : Venture philanthropy
12:41:24 From Vyviane : Sorry got distracted by cat drama. what was the first question to ask?
12:41:43 From Vyviane : Oh there it is, nevermind
12:42:03 From Yeshe Rabbit : If you can’t see the slides, look at the “More” button on top of your screen and click “Fit to window”
12:48:05 From Mark Green : Events are of value if the NON-financial outcomes are worth it (community building, visibility, etc.), but they are extremely inefficient uses of available staff/volunteer time relative to a major donor campaign.
12:48:09 From Yeshe Rabbit : I am definitely the party-going type
12:48:19 From Mark Green : House parties are easier.
12:49:29 From Jaina Bee : House parties are very hospitable. And I know a fancy house
12:49:35 From P. Sufenas Virius Lupus : Is anyone else having problems with sound cutting out?
12:49:48 From Robin Grimm, Minneapolis : sound is fine for me
12:49:52 From Carolina Amor : my sound is ok
12:49:58 From Yeshe Rabbit : I think events build relationships, which are the gateway to gifts. They are also a good way for those with privilege to introduce others they know who are at the same level of privilege to consider their assumed views.
12:50:01 From Jaina Bee : haven’t noticed any, Lupus
12:50:14 From Syren Jill : It really depends on the cause and the community. I’ve done events that netted 100k /third of annual budget, and soe that were really just outreach
12:50:16 From an Elder Apprentice : Sound ok. But I am using the phone connection not internet
12:50:23 From Yeshe Rabbit : Lupus, it looks like your signal is cutting in an out.
12:50:24 From P. Sufenas Virius Lupus : I’ll disconnect again and try again.
12:50:29 From Russell Erwin CUUPs : a little bit of sound out, we are on a wifi so a little slower connection
12:50:29 From Wytchfawn : House parties would be hard to do if you live in a rural area, I would think.
12:50:39 From Yeshe Rabbit : Barn raising!
12:50:47 From Jaina Bee : The Grange!
12:51:07 From Yeshe Rabbit : Rural Paganism is nearly produced upon parties, in my experience.
12:51:16 From Yeshe Rabbit : *predicated
12:52:41 From Wytchfawn : Trade or barter would work… trading of services or donation of time?
12:53:33 From Mark Green : Money exists in systems that aren’t capitalistic. Resources are still needed in every culture and economic system; it is not inherently capitalistic to raise money for programs that benefit the world.
12:54:21 From Rion Roberts : Fundraising and the use of money is not coeval with Capital. The accumulation of capital is indeed a part of our monetary system true. But fundraising the mere use of money is not equivalent to capitalism.
12:55:00 From Rion Roberts : That said complicity with Capitalism is a concern we should all be duly aware of.
12:55:21 From Mark Green : Indeed: donors give because it feels GOOD to do good in the world. It is important not to succumb to resentment of those who are affluent and assume that means they are capitalists or oppressors; many of them are not.
12:55:23 From Rion Roberts : And certainly merits critique.
12:55:48 From River Devora : Really, the question becomes whether you are prepared for your group to be a full time, organized thing. Not every group wants or needs that, but groups that do have that as their end goal need to figure out how to have the resources to keep themselves afloat.
12:55:58 From Mark Green : The relationship of the Pagan community to power and money is a can of worms we can’t address here…but it should be addressed.
12:56:12 From Rion Roberts : The flow of money away from capitalist production is a necessary component of anticapitalist action.
12:56:30 From an Elder Apprentice : Would love a pagan dialog on ‘Money’ it’s practicalities, it’s spirituality, could it be replaced, it’s evolution into something different. Etc etc etc. I think best done in the form of a Bohmian Dialog but what ever form would be wonderful
12:56:39 From Lasara Allen : ^^^ what Mark said.
12:56:53 From Rion Roberts : That’s a great idea Elder. I agree with you Mark.
12:57:12 From an Elder Apprentice : How could it happen?
12:59:11 From Rion Roberts : How can this dialog happen? I think encouraging symposia on political topics and Paganism is the first step.
13:00:41 From Rion Roberts : Something I’m actively working towards. Shortly the Pantheon Foundation will be working toward a journal of activist studies. I think opening a formal dialog on specific theme pertinent to our concerns is a gray first step.
13:00:51 From Rion Roberts : More in this very soon.
13:01:07 From Yeshe Rabbit : Right on, Rion
13:01:28 From Vicki : Think globally, act locally.
13:01:36 From Wytchfawn : I always liked the “think locally, act locally”
13:01:38 From Wytchfawn : LOL
13:01:40 From River Devora : I am so glad to hear Alley talking about the importance of acting locally…
13:01:44 From Yeshe Rabbit : Pray globally, Priest/ess locally 🙂
13:01:45 From Wytchfawn : Great minds!
13:01:56 From Carolina Amor : I like that 🙂
13:01:59 From Yeshe Rabbit : You all owe me a beer 😉
13:02:14 From Vicki : CAYA is helping save Sausal Creek.
13:02:44 From Rion Roberts : One of my concerns regarding the care of the self: particular issue and struggle is how we accomplish large scale change.
13:02:46 From Yeshe Rabbit : and working with the County Food Bank, the Crossroads Shelter, and our friends who just had a house fire!
13:02:58 From Rion Roberts : Right on Alley. This is fantastic.
13:02:58 From Mark Green : The two often intersect. A lot of the work I did in the 90s ended up starting political careers of good leaders who ended up climbing the ladder to state and federal offices. Having a pipeline of good representation is critically important for long term success.
13:03:21 From Wytchfawn : ^^Very true Mark.
13:03:54 From Rion Roberts : Focusing on the big picture narrative can make the task seem impossible and leads to disillusionment.
13:04:09 From Rion Roberts : As though are action exists without meaning.
13:04:46 From Barbara Cormack : Folks, just want to say, the chat is great and so is the presenter, Two conversations at the same time is really distracting.
13:05:05 From Rion Roberts : I totally agree. local political entities are where we can affect change especially in the face of national political stagnation.
13:05:23 From Yeshe Rabbit : Let’s try to be mindful to hear Alley out
13:05:41 From Rion Roberts : Absolutely.
13:06:39 From Wytchfawn : That all works with government systems… but what about in our pagan community? Where there is no central authority and each group seems to be self governing?
13:07:14 From Syren Jill : Broken tools are still tools. They provide the perfect opportunity to find new creative uses for our benefit.
13:08:13 From Mark Green : Yes. Just because systems lean against the outcomes we seek to achieve doesn’t mean they can’t be worked to deliver them, with enough diligence and smart strategy.
13:09:20 From River Devora : *twinkle fingers* sing it, Alley!!
13:09:42 From Yeshe Rabbit : I am both of those things in different spaces
13:10:37 From River Devora : This is such an importnat conversation! The power of strategic alliances = we are all stronger when we walk in harmony.
13:10:40 From an Elder Apprentice : Good cop, bad cop, great point! So important!
13:11:01 From Jaina Bee : I’m the weird cop
13:11:09 From Yeshe Rabbit : lol
13:12:15 From Wytchfawn : They don’t see her coming…
13:12:16 From Mark Green : Twinkling for “being able to pass”
13:12:31 From an Elder Apprentice : The ability ‘to play a role’ as a path of power, so important and so hard.
13:13:32 From Wytchfawn : That as an excellent example of using the tools.
13:13:50 From Jaina Bee : Trickster Technology
13:13:57 From an Elder Apprentice : Also of ‘walking between the worlds’
13:14:10 From Heather Freysdottir : I’m Loki’s, I approve and agree
13:15:01 From Mark Green : Right–the challenge of being able to work the corridors of power while not losing your credibility with your base.
13:15:35 From an Elder Apprentice : The credibility of the truth too
13:16:11 From kismet : Let her keep talking, Rabbit! Time is an illusion. lol
13:16:23 From Wytchfawn : She’s GOT IT!
13:16:36 From Yeshe Rabbit : I’m loving what she is saying- we will get to questions in a minute
13:16:38 From Mark Green : Yes: when asking the insanely wealthy to pay the same tax rate as middle-class people gets castigated as “class warfare”, you’re talking about a society that has no clue about class.
13:17:15 From Vicki : The Christians fundies are in our school boards.
13:17:26 From Heather Freysdottir : same here, Vicki
13:18:06 From Mark Green : That’s why we need to be running for those boards–even if we have no chance of winning, we can articulate the issues they don’t want to talk about. They’re on those school boards because the christian right understands pipelining; we need to do the same.
13:18:45 From River Devora : Shout out, Alley. Big respect to you.
13:18:46 From Robin Grimm, Minneapolis : Mark, yup, and other elected bodies.
13:18:47 From an Elder Apprentice : Mark, exactly
13:18:53 From Robin Grimm, Minneapolis : especially local
13:19:15 From Alley Valkyrie : thank you all 🙂
13:19:19 From Heather Freysdottir : FOOD BANK
13:19:24 From Heather Freysdottir : in my local community
13:20:01 From Wytchfawn : OH GOOD! Ankhira and Rabbit, contact me afterwards about this issue.
13:20:14 From River Devora : Awesome, Yeshe! This is so important, and so needed.
13:20:45 From Wytchfawn : NO Pagan should ever die alone.
13:21:06 From Camilla Laurentine : THANK YOU for that!!! It’s a HUGE needed thing! I want to help out with this any way I can as a training death midwife!
13:21:25 From Heather Freysdottir : i have so much respect for death workers
13:21:30 From River Devora : Awesome. Thank you for addressing this directly, Rabbit <3.
13:21:41 From Heather Freysdottir : my mother was a hospice nurse for many years
13:23:59 From Wytchfawn : we have a lot of death doulas in our community, but no way to find them because they are not very visible.
13:24:04 From Yeshe Rabbit : I’m glad folks are enthusiastic about this idea. We intend to raise and disperse $50,000 in the next 5 years. SMIB!
13:24:20 From Vyviane : That’s great Yeshe!
13:25:28 From Rion Roberts : Thank you Sam! Education and critical thought are necessary for any thriving and sustainable democratic society
13:25:31 From Camilla Laurentine : My personal hope is to help raise money to help raise a fund for Pagan funerals for those in need and hopefully help organize the death doulas and workers into an organization, so we are easier to find for those who need us.
13:25:32 From Heather Freysdottir : Teaching, when done correctly, is a subversive activity
13:27:23 From River Devora : thank you for addressing my concerns, Sam!
13:28:09 From Rion Roberts : River, I thank you for bringing them up!
13:28:43 From Robin Grimm, Minneapolis : great question and great answer River and Sam
13:29:51 From Heather Freysdottir : twinkling so hard
13:30:53 From Yeshe Rabbit : Camilla, that’s amazing. We should talk.
13:31:32 From Heather Freysdottir : I have a template at my site for making a list of local social services
13:31:49 From Vyviane : Which site is that Heather?
13:31:52 From Rion Roberts : Institutional literacy.
13:32:01 From Heather Freysdottir : i think everyone engaged in pastoral counseling should be familiar with what is available in their area
13:32:02 From River Devora : I know there are organizations of birth doulas. It would be hugely helpful to a bunch of us if we had access to an organized group of death doulas. I act as clergy in my local community, and it would be a big help to know who to bring in when my own community has need of such services.
13:32:14 From Heather Freysdottir : lokisbruid.wordpress.com is my site; it’s in the nav bar
13:32:19 From Wytchfawn : ^^^Exactly River!
13:32:28 From Rion Roberts : So important. Especially in light of Alley’s emphasis on local action.
13:32:29 From Mark Green : Yes: there are nonprofits that do that sort of thing for the poor, like Single Stop (enables people to apply for many kinds of services at a single location).
13:32:44 From Vyviane : Thank you Heather 🙂
13:33:26 From Sam Webster : The Foundation is planning on developing such and org. Want to help make it happen?
13:33:32 From Yeshe Rabbit : Sounds like the Pantheon Foundation would be helpful if we had some kind of resources/referral network, with individuals who had proper training and experience.
13:33:52 From Yeshe Rabbit : Lol Sam, here we are, recruiting. But folks, we mean it! Come help, please!
13:34:02 From Wytchfawn : Yes… you guys already know I am here for whatever you need…
13:34:02 From Ankhira : 🙂
13:34:08 From Heather Freysdottir : I am available, Yeshe
13:34:23 From Vyviane : Thank you everyone!
13:34:31 From Carolina Amor : Thank you everyone!
13:34:33 From Lasara Allen : that was amazing.
13:34:34 From River Devora : Blessings and thanks to the panelists!
13:34:34 From Vyviane : Another great session
13:34:37 From Lasara Allen : thank you all.
13:34:43 From Wytchfawn : TY everyone.
13:34:48 From Robin Grimm, Minneapolis : I would love for you Pantheon Foundation folks to come do workshops at our Paganicon sometime. It is always mid-March in the Twin Cities, Minnesota
13:34:55 From an Elder Apprentice : Wonderful session. Thanks to all.
13:35:00 From Rion Roberts : This was intensely useful discussion. Thank you all
13:35:01 From Mark Green : I highly recommend doing thorough research of what kind of clearing house social service orgs are *already out there* before reinventing the wheel. It may just be that all we need to do is point towards some of them.
13:35:02 From Heather Freysdottir : meals on wheels and Habitat for Humanity are both good examples of secular folk working on th same issues we are.
13:35:16 From Vyviane : I am starting to get the feels that there are only a few sessions left in the confrence.
13:35:18 From Vicki : 211—call for social services in Alameda County
13:35:19 From Sam Webster : Happy to come tp Paganicon!
13:35:25 From Heather Freysdottir : I wrote a column on this at Witches and Pagans; please PM me
13:35:31 From Heather Freysdottir : I have a list of a few already
13:35:32 From Robin Grimm, Minneapolis : Sam that’s great
13:35:42 From Rhiannon Laakso : the disabled….
13:35:53 From Robin Grimm, Minneapolis : thanik y0ou all!